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We all love packing a bag and heading out to a destination. Of course, we always love sandy beaches, but it's also nice to immerse ourselves in a bit of a winter wonderland as well! Jackson Hole is a destination that can be enjoyed year around, but this time of year when it comes to the snow, being able to enjoy a number of activities as well as we enjoy cuisine and the town at large.
Those who are in the region will have the ability to enjoy the elements while maintaining their skincare with the iconic brand Kiehl's. We took some time with Isabelle Carramaschi, SVP Kiehl’s to find out about the brand historically, their innovations, how they have embraced sports, and what they are doing with Jackson Hole Mountain Resort. In addition, we
chatted with Andrew Way, Marketing VP of Jackson Hole Mountain Resort, to find out about the area, what makes it a must-visit destination for those during this time of year as well in other seasons, and to learn more about the culinary offerings as well as upcoming events that we should know about.
ATHLEISURE MAG: Kiehl's launched in 1851 on 13th and 3rd Ave here in NY. Tell me about John Kiehl's and what the first product was that the brand released?
ISABELLE CARRAMASCHI: In the late 18th century, John Kiehl, with a keen interest in homeopathy, bought a New York apothecary's shop first opened in 1851 by Louis Brunswick, a German immigrant. Inspired by old-world apothecaries, he used the store to offer free consultations and hand-compounded custom remedies.
With his custom remedies and personalized consultations, John Kiehl developed a special community around his apothecary, where care was available to anyone who walked through the doors. These unique values helped to build Kiehl’s and remain at the heart of the brand today.
AM: It seems that the brand has always looked at the customer experience from having the concept of "Try Before You Buy" in 1922 as well as being one of the first companies in 1924 to list their ingredients on the label before the government made this a mandate. Why was the brand ahead of its time in this space?
IC: I believe the brand will remain ahead of its time in the space so long as it remains true to its values and places community first. The brand has always prioritized inclusivity and the care of others, made evident in its embracing of the LGBTQ+ community during a time when they were faced with adversity during the AIDS epidemic. The brand’s commitment to sustainability and transparency with our ingredients is based on the same principles; we care about what is inside our formulas and its impact on the world we live in. Kiehl’s will continue to put clients before sales with custom treatments and personalized consultations – we joke at L'Oréal that the Kiehl’s team would rather make a friend than a sale.
And of course, we need the business to do well to support our staff, our causes and our community; but we believe one in consequence of the other.
AM: Science seems to be core to the brand as Aaron Morse not only took over the family business, but he was known for formulating an early form of penicilin and he gave the US government a special Aloe Vera Cream that could be used on radiation burns. What are some of the things that he created that are still hero products within the assortment today?
IC: In our view, Aaron created something bigger than product! He created a testing methodology that is applicable to all our skus. Due to his education, exposure to war, and sense of adventure, Kiehl's creams were always put to the test against extreme conditions. A few products that have stood the test of time include the Lip Balm #1, Calendula Herbal-Extract Toner, Blue Astringent Lotion, Crème de Corps Body Lotion, and Ultra Facial Moisturizer (with more than one sold every minute in the U.S.!).
AM: The brand has over 100 products and artifacts that are in the permanent collection of the Division of Medicine and Science at the Smithsonian National Museum in DC. What does it mean to the brand that it has a legacy that started as an apothecary/pharmacy and continues to this day?
IC: It's a great reminder of where we came from and how much expertise this brand carries.
In the acquisition by L'Oréal, it was essential to learn and preserve the values and soul of the brand and respect more than a century of expertise. Of course, there is always excitement around new brands, but there is so much knowledge and history behind Kiehls.
AM: In 1988, the brand sponsored the Everest '88 Expedition, which was the first ascent on the east face of the mountain without supplemental oxygen! But they brought an array of Kiehl's products! What was the thinking behind sponsoring this event, and what is the connection between the beauty brand and sports?
IC: As mentioned above, through his love for adventure, Aaron Mores looked to enhance the performance of products by putting them through extreme testing; taking products to be tested and reformulated based on voyages such as The Everest ’88 Expedition has had a tremendous impact on how we formulate, test, and market our products today. We hope to bring to life this spirit of adventure through our partnership with Jackson Hole Mountain Resort while also celebrating the community and creating experiences as Aaron did with his expeditions.
AM: How did the Kiehls and the Jackson Hole Mountain Resort partnership come about to be the official 2024 SPF Partner?
IC: As a brand centered around community, we love finding and partnering with communities, creators, and brands that share our beliefs. Jackson Hole Mountain Resort is a unique place that embodies the spirit of adventure and outdoor exploration year-round, resonating deeply with the Kiehl’s brand heritage. One of Kiehl’s main goals is to preserve the values and rich history of the brand - one being “adventure testing” to further highlight our efficacious formulas and technology.
Now that we have some backstory about the brand, hero products, and how they have continued to be involved in sports, we wanted to know more about this resort and what makes it so unique. Andrew Way, the Marketing VP of Jackson Hole Mountain Resort gives us the inside scoop.
ATHLEISURE MAG: Why is Jackson Hole, in terms of the area, a destination for outdoor enthusiasts, especially during the winter, as it is located in Wyoming's Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem as well as Grand Teton National Park?
ANDREW WAY: Jackson Hole Mountain Resort's (JHMR) northern boundary is Grand Teton National Park and we operate on a Bridger Teton National Forest permit. The views are stunning and 97 percent of the land in the Jackson Hole area is open space and will always be protected. Getting outside and going on an adventure is right out our front door and deeply ingrained in our local culture.
AW: Jacksonhole.com has a ton of information for people planning a trip to Jackson Hole, ranging from First Timer’s Guides to booking a full family vacation. We also have a ton of great content that will help anyone plan their trip.
JHMR first opened in 1965 with Apres Vous Mountain. The Jackson Hole Aerial Tram opened in 1966, taking people to the summit of Rendezvous Mountain. The Aerial Tram is an incredible experience that whisks skiers and riders 4,139 vertical feet in 10 minutes, accessing some of the best terrain and fall line skiing in North America.
AM: How much snow does Jackson Hole get?
AW: The combination of snow and terrain make Jackson Hole one of the top destinations for skiers and riders. We average 458 inches of snowfall each season, and it’s usually light, powder snow.
AM: The partnership between JHMR and Kiehl's seems like a natural fit! For guests that are coming to the resort, how will they be able to engage with this collab?
AW: We are excited to offer sampling of Khiel’s products to guests throughout the season at the base of our lifts. Kiehl’s will also be hosting an activation in March, when guests will be able to check skin health, sample products, enjoy some NYC-inspired treats, and receive complimentary ski/board waxes.
Kiehl’s products are available for sale in key JHMR stores, including Jackson Hole Sports, Teton Village Sports, and Rodeo.
AM: Tell us about Kings and Queens.
AW: Kings & Queens is one of the top freeride events available to elite skiers and snowboarders, held at the world-famous Corbet’s Couloir. Athletes have pushed the limits of what’s possible in blending freeride in steep, big-mountain terrain. It also has an important history of equality, with equal prize money for women and men and the athletes themselves judging the competition and determining the winners. We can’t wait to see what goes down this year, with one of the best lineups of athletes we’ve ever had.
AM: Tell us about the lodging options that are available for those that want to spend time on the mountain as well as to have a luxury experience when they are off of it.
AW: From luxury stays at the Four Seasons to staying at the historic Hostel in Teton Village, there are lodging options available for everyone. My personal favorite is the Teton Mountain Lodge & Spa, which blends luxury with authentic mountain living. I also recommend Jackson Hole Resort Lodging, which offers vacation rentals at the base of Jackson Hole Mountain Resort that are perfect for a family looking for more space.
AM: We always enjoy having a great meal, especially when we're doing a lot of activities. Can you tell us about restaurants that are on property that we should have on our list?
AW: Piste Mountain Bistro offers a wonderful dining experience at the top of the Bridger Gondola. The menu is as spectacular as the views, which overlook the Jackson Hole valley.
AM: Can you tell us about Corbet's Cabin and their Top of the World Waffles? What are 3 of your favorites?
AW: Corbet’s Cabin serves world-famous waffles from the top of Rendezvous Mountain at 10,450’. Earlier this year USA Today named Corbet’s Cabin number two on its list of the 10 Best Ski Restaurants in North America survey. My favorites are the Gateway (with peanut butter and bacon), Trad (with brown sugar butter), and Italian, which features Nutella.
AM: Outside of activities on the mountain, what are other activities that are in the area that we should have in mind this winter?
AW: Skiing is my favorite activity in the winter, but there’s lots more to do in Jackson Hole. Check out the Town Square with shopping, sleigh rides on the National Elk Refuge, cross country skiing and snowshoeing in Grand Teton National Park, photos at the elk antler arches, and enjoy a buffalo burger with a pint of the brand new Jackson Hole Lager.
AM: As we head into the Spring, the Rendezvous Music Festival will be on April 5th and 6th. What can you tell us about this?
AW: Rendezvous Music Festival is a free, two-day music festival that features incredible music acts set against the most iconic backdrops in Jackson Hole: Historic downtown Jackson Town Square and the base of Jackson Hole Mountain Resort. This year’s lineup features platinum-selling indie rock heroes The Head and The Heart headlining with Jamestown Revival on April 5 in Town Square, and Mt. Joy headlining alongside Luke Grimes and Niko Moon on April 6 in Teton Village. Rendezvous Music Festival is an amazing weekend to experience all that Jackson Hole has to offer in the spring.
Rendezvous also gives guests the ultimate Jackson Hole experience. Aside from the concerts, festival goers are encouraged to enjoy the amazing skiing and riding, dining, nightlife, wildlife viewing, shopping, and other activities.
AM: What does Jackson Hole and JHMR offer in the summer and the fall months for those that are thinking ahead to booking at these times of the year?
AW: Jackson Hole is home to some of the country’s most inspiring natural beauty, including Grand Teton National Park (GTNP), which borders JHMR. With abundant wildlife, crystal clear lakes, and high alpine terrain, GTNP offers amazing hiking, climbing, paddle boarding, and wildlife viewing. Jackson Hole is also a convenient homebase for access to Yellowstone National Park’s southern entrance, providing a plethora of lodging, dining, nightlife, and activity options that are unavailable in the park.
In the summer and early fall, JHMR offers a range of activities for the Jackson Hole traveler. The Aerial Tram and Bridger Gondola run for sightseeing, offering stunning views of the Jackson Hole valley as well as the Teton, Gros Ventre, and Snake River mountain ranges. The Jackson Hole Bike Park offers world-class downhill mountain bike trails for everyone from the novice to the highly technical and advanced rider. JHMR offers downhill bike rentals, private mountain bike guides, youth bike clinics, and adaptive mountain biking lessons for those looking to expand their skills. JHMR’s Via Ferrata, one of very few in the country, provides guests the opportunity to experience guided, safe high-alpine climbing along iron rungs, cable traverses, and suspended bridges, with no climbing experience necessary. Summer activities at JHMR also include world-class lift-to-lift hiking, disc golf, paragliding, the aerial ropes course, yoga, outdoor dining, and more.
AM: Are there additional events coming up that we should keep an eye out for?
AW: March at JHMR is full of action! The Jackson Hole Downhill and Dick’s Ditch Banked Slalom offer opportunities for all skiers and riders to find their need for speed, and spectators will also have the chance to watch skilled racers in the US Ski & Showboard U18 Alpine Nationals and Wyoming High School Championships.
Summer will also offer a full events calendar, including bike and running races, the Jackson Hole Food & Wine Fest, Bikes & Brews, and the world premiere of the latest film from Teton Gravity Research.
IG @kiehls
PHOTOGRAPHY COURTESY | PG 132 - 137 + 141 Jackson Hole Mountain Resort | PG 138 Kiehls
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We are 1 year away from the Summer Olympic Games in Paris 2024! There is nothing like that time of year when we cheer for our favorite athletes as they make their dreams a reality! This month, we caught up with Nathan Adrian 8X Team USA Swimming Olympic Medalist (5G, 1S and 2B). We enjoyed seeing him in Beijing 2008, London 2012, and Rio 2016. We wanted to catch up with this freestyle swimmer to find out more about how he got into the sport, competing in it, his Olympic experience, safe sun that allows swimmers to enjoy being in the water without sacrificing their aesthetics, how he gives back to the sport, and how he continues to advocate for men's health.
ATHLEISURE MAG: When did you fall in love with the water?
NATHAN ADRIAN: Oh haha, you know, I think before I was even old enough to make memories to be honest. Some of my earliest earliest memories are my mom going and doing laps and I would just turtle on her back and just cruise around. It was something that was just always deeply engrained in all of us as a family. My sister is 8½ years older than me, my brother is 6 years older than me, so it’s something that I was born into and it wasn’t just something that us as a family picked up.
AM: That’s amazing!
When did you realize that freestyle was going to be something that you wanted to continue to do and excel in?
NA: Oh yeah, good question! So like, swimming overall – freestyle is what I gravitated towards and I had a really good situation and set of coaches that gave me what I needed at that particular time in my life and my development as an athlete. So when I was young, it was just fun times and it was all games, happy smiles and lots of energy. That transitioned into games and also, “hey, let’s set some goals and try to focus while we’re here. Let’s try to show up more,” and that kind of thing. Then, eventually, it was, this is my life and this is how I did it. I set goals, I worked really hard, and through that, that’s how I think that I fell in love with that process. It also me as an individual, looking back, swimming was the perfect thing for me. I had a lot of energy, it helped me focus and it also allowed me to set those big goals and then you set those little goals and if you’re good at it, you can set little goals for every month of practice, every week of practice and down to everyday of practice. If you achieve that, whether you achieve them or don’t achieve them, if you reflect and then you figure out how you can be better, that’s just like a little puzzle that you’re trying to optimize and to figure out how you can be the best athlete that you can be.
AM: So true!
Did you always dream about going to the Olympics?
NA: So that started when I was watching the 2000 Olympics. I was about 11 and then in 2004, I was trying to qualify for the Olympic Trials and I did not and then in 2008, I was like, “hey, I’m 19 and I know that it’s kind of young, but maybe I can do this if the stars align.
AM: We enjoyed watching you and to know that you have participated in the Olympic Games of Beijing, London, and Rio where you medaled as an individual as well as a team of where you swam along with Lochte, Phelps, Murphy, and all of these amazing people, what was it like to work with those people and those various teams?
NA: Oh that was awesome! I feel very very blessed. I really got to experience what I consider to be one of the highlights of Team USA dominance in the sport. You know, people who were around during the 70s and stuff, they would argue back pretty hard core, but that’s ok. This is what I would call the modern era of swimming let’s call it that. There were guys like Michael Phelps (28X Medalist 23G, 3S, 2B), there was Jason Lezak (8X Medalist 4G, 2S, 2B), Aaron Peirsol (7X Medalist 5G, 2S), Ian Crocker (5X Medalist 3G, 1S, 1B), Brendan Hansen (6X Medalist 3G, 1S, 2B) – oh my gosh, these guys had world records in each of their events and then in my 2008 team, I was with Dara Torres (12X Medalist 4G, 4S, 4B), Katie Hoff (3X Medalist 1S, 2B) at the peak of her game, I was with Natalie Coughlin (12X Medalist 3G, 4S, 5B) when she won. There were so many athletes for me to watch and learn from. It was absolutely incredible for me to be part of that and especially on that 2008 team, that was a transition for me from being a fan to actually doing it on that international stage. So I got to see my heroes and watch them, talk to them, hang out with them, and be a part of their team. As you move on from that, as with all things, you see the times that swimmers are going so fast as they are now. You take what they did and try to bring it in to what you’re doing and make it better!
AM: What were some of your favorite moments in competing or just being with them?
NA: Oh gosh, I think that there’s a lot! I mean, I have 8 medals so those are obviously a favorite moment. The ones that aren’t just as public, are those that happen when you are with a team or a group for 3 or 5 weeks all day everyday – like summer camp for adults! But we’re all there for a job with a very, very serious purpose so there’s not much messing around. Whether it be someone I think playing a prank in 2008 and they put a cicada in the trail mix bag which was pretty funny. I mean it’s pretty gross because they’re so big!
Another one in 2012, I roomed with Matt Grevers (6X Medalist 4G, 2S) which is one of my best friends to this day. He looked at me and after we both won, he was like, “dude, think back to a year ago, who would have bet on us besides our parents?” You know? Special moments like that are awesome because in 2011, I didn't medal in any of the individual races and Matt didn’t even make the World Championships team – so we weren’t even on the radar for winning. But here we are at that point, we won gold and we’re preparing for the 4 X 100 medley relay after that. So that was really awesome.
Just eating in the dining hall and experiencing that. World Championships is similar, but not the same as the Olympics. The Olympics are just that special feeling because you have every sport there and to just people watch and to enjoy that. You can watch the pride that people have in their country and as they are getting ready to compete and do what they can to win those medals that’s just something that’s really special.
AM: Obviously swimming is such a great way to meet your fitness goals. Here at Athleisure Mag, we like to ask athletes what you like to do in and out of the water to stay fit that we can add to our fitness routines?
NA: You know, I actually think that one of the things that we did was a lot of good mobility. I actually find myself that after pouring that first cup of coffee, I will just do a really deep lunge hold. My hip flexors, I’m sitting in a chair right now, I need to stretch these hip flexors out. I’m probably not going to do it here at work, but in the morning is a great time as you’re getting your mobility going. Same thing with doing some thoracic spine mobility. Again, this is before my daughter and my wife is awake, I’m just sitting in the kitchen doing Spider-Man stretches which are different rotational stretches. It really is that if you don’t use it, you’ll lose it! I want to be able to keep that mobility and then I do my best to get pops of strength in.
Certain days when I can’t get into a weight room, you need to activate those muscles, you do a push up, a bodyweight squat, you can do a single leg squat – find an overhang and do a pull up. Do something just to activate it and keep those muscles moving. I’m in a pool right now, I work in a pool, but I just try to do it. I’m telling you what I want to do, and I don’t always live by it. But I do try to get into the pool and do some aerobic stuff because you’ve just got to keep that heart rate up and keep it moving.
Definitely another thing that if you don’t use it, you lose it! That’s where Dermasport really comes in nicely because I’ve used it. My break is usually smack dab in the middle of the day and we’re coming in on a California heat wave right now so it’s about to be bright and sunny and I’m swimming in it. So I need to wear my sunscreen and then afterwards, I need to be able to take it off so that I don’t look funky when we’re talking to kiddos and giving them lessons and things.
AM: How did your partnership with Dermasport come about and what was it that you felt was synergistic between you and the brand?
NA: Well, the partnership came about because I was actually working with somebody with some goggles and they knew about Dermasport and they introduced me to the team. They sent me a trial package and I loved it. I grew up in Seattle, so we were doing sunscreen over the summer, but I didn’t have that 365 exposure to the sun that we have here California now. So when I moved down here, it was like, what do I do? Everybody was just like zinc, zinc, zinc – everyone looked like a ghost, the creases in your elbows looked all white even though you scrubbed and did that whole song and dance. I tried this and it’s zinc sunscreen, but it also moisturizes my face and I feel better after I put it on as well as more hydrated than I did before – which is awesome. Then, you do the cleanser which gets it all off and then the moisturizer afterwards as it’s very refreshing. I mean, it’s a product that’s made for swimmers. Even though I’m not still swimming internationally, I'm still very much so a swimmer. I'm a swimmer in California that needs to protect my face. My sister is actually a derm PA so she’s constantly reminding me on my sunscreen. I’m like, “no, no – I got it covered. I’m doing what I can to protect my face from the sun.”
AM: What will you be doing with the brand in terms of clinics, partnerships etc. that people will be able to see?
NA: I think that we’re still working on that and developing it. There’s actually a meet coming up here that I’m hoping – I mean we just got the product launch happening, so if I can get my hands on some, I’d love to go and see some of those master swimmers and let them try. I mean, this is one of those things that I know that people just need to go and try it. You need to just get your hands on a sample, try it, and it will absolutely blow you away with the way that your face feels when using this sunscreen as opposed to the other ones that are made to be in the water. I will say that certainly other people have made sunscreens that make you feel hydrated, that make you feel nice, but this is something that’s taking a beating! We’re in chlorine water and the sun so it has to have some staying power and it does!
AM: Are there any projects that you’re involved in that you would like to share that we can keep an eye out for?
NA: Honestly, right now, I’ve got my hands full. My life has changed a lot since I was done competing. I have 2 daughters now, so that’s definitely a project, I’m here at the Swim School and we’re running swimming lessons trying to teach as many kiddos to swim as we can. I still do a lot of stuff with the USA Swimming Foundation, traveling around especially during Water Safety Month talking about the importance of swimming lessons and how it can save lives.
I also do a little bit of men’s health advocacy. You know, I was diagnosed with cancer and it’s kind of an uncomfortable thing to talk about for some people and I’m pretty comfortable talking with people about it especially because it was testicular cancer (Editor’s Note: At the age of 30 in 2018, Nathan was diagnosed, it was caught and treated.) and I think that there is just a cultural barrier for people – for men specifically to 1, see the doctor and 2, to talk about an issue with their reproductive organs. Most of the time, when testicular cancer is diagnosed, the patients know that something was wrong pretty well in advance. It’s really sad in that way when you talk to doctors and they’re like, “yeah, so many people wait and wait and they wait until their lower back is hurting or they’re coughing up blood because it spread and they just didn’t know.” You can just be out there whether it’s a blurb on the bottom of the ticker tape on ESPN or whatever it might be and say, “hey, testicular cancer is a thing and it affects young people too.” That’s something that means a lot to me.
AM: How do you give back to the sport to the next generation of people coming up?
NA: Well, I was in the water for about an hour today teaching kids how to swim! I have another couple of lessons coming up later on today around 1pm. I mean, just doing what I can! I feel very blessed. Summer is an absolute marathon, just because it’s summer time and that’s when we can run all day long because kids aren’t in school. But it’s an absolute dream come true to be able to do something that I love, to be able to spread my love for the sport and to maybe ignite some passion in some others as well as give a life saving skill. It’s the only sport that is a life saving skill! I just feel so lucky to be able to wake up and be excited for what I’m able to do and to feel good about what I do every day.
AM: What do you want your legacy to be in the sport or in general?
NA: I don’t know. People who ask me that, I thought that I would have a better answer by now. I think that just thinking about it off the top of my head, like I was talking about in 2008, me taking what other people were doing at that time, making it their own and making it better. Just being a small piece of that – maybe the athletes of today saw something that I did or how I approached my swimming. It doesn’t have to be that every athlete has to do their swimming the way that I did. I think that that is something that I learned back in 2008 where I said, “oh, ok I can’t do that.” I can try this, or this might work or I can see myself doing something like that could work. For those that see themselves in something that I do, them taking it and then working with their coaches and then bringing that further and further. The cool thing about swimming is that we’re still setting World Records pretty regularly. I mean track and field is pretty fun and super exciting, but – the 100 meter dash there hasn’t been a World Record in quite some time. So that’s what I love seeing. People pressing it further and further.
PHOTOGRAPHY CREDITS | PG 52 + 55 Courtesy Narthan Adrian | PG 56 Stephane Kempinaire KMSP DPPI Icon Sportwire | PG 59Zumapress/Icon Sportswire |
We always like sitting down with those that trailblaze their industries by working in their vertical and creating innovations that change the way that we go about doing what we do. We caught up with Chaz Dean, Founder of WEN and Celebrity Hair Stylist & Colorist, and have been fans of his since we first met him and followed his story on BRAVO's Flipping Out with Jeff Lewis, and when he went onto QVC to sell his line of haircare products. He creates products that you'll find using for your hair as well as other parts of your body! In addition, he is focused on clean ingredients that ensure our bodies stay hydrated and are not tested on animals.
We wanted to find out more about how he got into the industry, how being multi-talented in an array of areas allowed him to converge his skill sets even more to optimize his work, how he made his Chaz Dean Studio distinctive and his latest launch of WEN's Pina Colada line.
ATHLEISURE MAG: When did you realize that you wanted to be a hairstylist?
CHAZ DEAN: Probably when I was 18 because I took photography all through high school and I was a photographer all through that, loved it! We moved to Arizona the week after I graduated from high school. I was still 17 at that point and so I took a commercial course in photography and I thought, I was moving back to California, because Arizona was not for me! It was too hot – way too hot, which is what we’re getting now but anyway!
I knew I was moving back to California, but again, I was only an 18 year old kid. I felt like I was this little fish in this huge pond and I thought that I was going to be eaten alive out here. I wanted more experience under my belt and because I was a fashion/beauty photographer, I wanted to learn how to do the hair and the makeup to create the look that was in my head. I didn’t want to have to tell the MUA here’s what I see and the hair stylist, here's what I see - the vision that I saw, I wanted to be able to create that! That was really important to me so I went to school for hair and all through beauty school, everyone knew, this was the kid that was going to graduate and go back to California that’s his dream! I was going to work at Vidal Sassoon, that was my dream in school at least. I was going to go to Los Angeles to work at Vidal Sassoon. That was my dream in school. It was the full picture, not compartments.
AM: Exactly.
What led to you wanting to open your own salon and what were your goals in doing that?
CD: It’s funny, when we were in beauty school, one of our assignments was, if you had your own salon, what would it look like? We all had to draw it out like architects to show what it would look like and the layout. So, I remember that being our exercise, but I had no idea how I drew it out, now. It would be interesting to know how did I actually plan this as an 18 year old kid? How did I do it then versus how it really is now? I don’t remember, but it’s not like I sought out that I was going to own my own salon. Many people do and they can’t wait to open their own. Mine wasn’t that way. I worked for another company and I worked for them. I started creating products for them which is how it happened.
I was a 19 year old kid who asked them, “how come you have your own haircare line, but you don’t have your own deep conditioner?” They didn’t. They would buy those hypro pacs at the beauty supply. I didn’t think that it made sense to have your own product line, but not your own deep conditioner. So they said if I wanted, they would set me up with a laboratory to help them create one. I had never done it and again, I was only 19, but it opened a door for me. I like to cook, I’m creative, I love art and all of those things. So of course I wanted to do that. I did and we launched it and it was called Reconstructor and it was amazing and everyone loved it and it worked great. A few months later they came up to me and said, we’re thinking of doing more of a natural product line and they wanted to know if I would be interested. I said I was, but I wanted to know what I would get out of it. Their answer to me was, “prove to us that you can do it first and then we’ll talk about that.” A young intimidated kid from the owner’s salon thought, “well didn’t I already do that with the Reconstructor?”
But I wanted to do it and I probably was afraid that if I asked, that they might say ok forget it. So I wanted to do it and I’m glad that I did. We did it and we launched a Primrose Shampoo because they wanted more of a natural product line. At the time, the only one that was out was Aveda. I had to do my research to know what I would do and what I would want to do. So I did Primrose Shampoo, Sage Conditioner, and Rosemary Conditioner which were the first 3 products of the line. I’m someone that if my name is on it, it’s on it and you’re not going to run my name through the mud. So they were someone that wanted instant gratification and they kept saying let’s go, let’s go, let’s go. I would tell them that since my name was on it, if I was going to do it, I would do it right. It took longer than what they wanted it to be, but in hindsight, it was pretty quick. We finally did it and launched it and that was the line that it is and that’s the fashion formula line which is the Big Sexy Hair concept. So it’s that line. I developed those 3 items and it became huge! So after we launched it, I asked them, what am I going to get for this? So they told me to meet them in their office on Tues. So I went and their offices were in Westwood and they slid a piece of paper across the table to me and remember it probably took me 9 months to launch it so when I first did it, I was so excited and thought, oh my gosh, I’m going to create a product line for them and a young naïve 19 year old kid thinks that maybe I will get 15% out of it. You have no idea. As the months went on without having any dialogue with them and we do this as people, I went down to 12% and 10% in my own head just because I knew how they were. So in my own head, I talked my value down without any dialogue to them and I think I did it as well because I didn’t want to be let down with what it actually ended up being.
AM: Well, yeah.
CD: I’m not joking, I probably went down to 5-7% in my own head. So I went and met with them and remember I went from my own head thinking 15% down to 5%. So they slid the paper across the table to me, I turned it over and I kind of get a little emotional every time I say this. They offered me a penny per bottle for every bottle manufactured. I’m like woah! So I mean nothing – my worth is nothing!
AM: Oh my!
CD: In my head and I get goose bumps every time I say it because I don’t talk about it often, but in my head, I’m thinking I put in all that work and all that passion – yes I learned from it, but you’re a big Goliath here and that’s pretty messed up! In my head I’m thinking, that 100 bottles will equal $1! As a kid that has no money, how am I every going to get to $1,000? It was insane! I wasn’t happy about it and we had dialogue and they were like, that’s it – take it or leave it. Wow, it was a stab in the back and I had no choice and I signed it. But in all honesty, I never even saw that and I never even saw anything from that. I did get a discount from them when I purchased the salon from them which I am jumping ahead of them a little bit. Because you asked me about the salon and it’s really important.
Knowing I was screwed over when I first created a product for them, then I got screwed over a second time, also knowing that I worked for them as I was a manager and they didn’t pay their managers anything. I would ask them to just give me minimum wage to show that what I was doing for them carried merit, weight, value, respect, and what not. Because you had to have mandatory meetings and to cancel out your clients or book out your clients. I was like, I’m losing money as a manager and you’re not even covering me on anything here. I would ask for minimum wage and I’m sorry, back then it was $3.65 – so essentially, I’m asking for $120 a week to show me that I mean something to you. So no there was nothing. I did it as long as I could until I felt that my clientele was suffering because of my managerial and I was managing a salon of 25 stylists and so forth. So I said that I couldn’t do it anymore and that was after all the other things that I was screwed over on. I resigned from management and I left the salon that I was at which was in Century City and I went up to their Bel Air location. When I did, I realized that everyone that was working there were ex-managers. I was a 20 year old kid and I went to a salon that was all ex-managers. They all seemed to go there and it was in one of the richest neighborhoods in California. When I would go there, there would be no music there, no coffee made, there was no vibe, no energy and I couldn’t do it because I’m the full picture! So, I took on management again even though I didn’t get paid for it. I couldn’t be in that environment so I had to manage it. It’s funny because it bounced back between me and one of the other managers when I was like, I’m done with it, then she would do it. We both knew we weren’t getting paid for it, but we did it because we cared about the environment.
When it came up that we heard news that they might be selling the salon, we were like, “what are we going to do?” So I start looking around and you’re in Bel Air, it’s way up there around nothing. I looked and I couldn’t find a place as I knew I wouldn’t be able to control the environment. I would have to fit in to whatever it is and did I see myself in that type of an environment? At one point, they offered it to me on whether I would want to buy it, but my first knee jerk reacting in my head was, "how am I going to do this after you f-ed me over how many times?” Now you want me to do this so that you can do it again? But after thinking about it I realized that for years there was a reason why that salon wasn’t successful because every time one of the ex-managers would leave to go open their own salon, you’re losing that built in clientele they had. New stylists would come in, but you’re not getting new people walking into the door because you’re in Bel Air, a multi-million dollar neighborhood but it’s a chain salon Carlton above the door. These women have pride, they’re not going to a chain salon. I would tell them for years, change the name to anything but Carlton and you will have successful stylists. But they’re not walking in that door because of the name that’s over it. Even though it works for you everywhere else, it does not in this neighborhood. I said it for years and I have goosebumps as I tell you this and tell you my story as I don’t usually relive this. Their ego is in the way and they will not change the name. So I thought, I can make this work. So I did do it and that’s what turned everything around. I had never intended to own a salon, it was never in my cards, I was just a busy hard worker and I worked from 9 in the morning until 11/midnight because I was just passionate about hair. Marysol has been my housekeeper for 25 years and she jokes with me and says, “he used to work hard.” I’m like, what do you mean, I have no time to breathe! But it’s a different kind of work but I would be at the salon for 12 and 14 hour days so I “used to work hard.” It’s a different kind of work, now it’s a business kind of work. The irony is that I did it and I didn’t have any money. I had nothing. So I painted the walls and it was when shabby chic was in and I took my roses and hung them upside down and I made it quaint and cute and welcoming because I didn’t have any money to do anything else. I hated the floors and I couldn’t do anything about that. I did an opening party with friends and I had a friend that was a singer who had an incredible voice and she sang and I had people in the neighborhood and from the very beginning it was busy busy busy. They lived in the neighborhood and they would walk by and they were shocked. They would ask me how I did this and I told them that for years, all you had to do was change that name! I called it Chaz Dean. No one knew who Chaz Dean was back then, it was Chaz Dean Salon and they didn’t know who. I changed it to Chaz Dean Salon and now people know who the hell Chaz Dean is!
AM: Absolutely!
CD: I did call it my own name because I wanted to be able to incorporate my name because of my own photography. I wasn’t just building a salon, I was building photography and hair. I wanted them to be able to know who is Chaz Dean. Does that make sense?
AM: It does!
At what point did you feel like that you had been making these products for other people and now that you wanted to do it for yourself since you also had the salon?
CD: The day that I opened my salon!
AM: That’s what I thought!
CD: Because when I worked for them, you had to sell shampoo, you had to sell their products and it was all that you could do. That’s the ironic part. May 1st in 1993, the day I bought the salon and opened my salon, I gave up lather and said that I didn’t have to do that anymore to sell shampoo. I created it for them but I had already realized before that that I used to do shampoo and conditioner twice a day, 14 times a week. When I would shampoo my scalp, it would get tight and it felt horrible and it would be all stripped and I knew it. Then the conditioner would just comb through it and for 2 hours a day, it would look ok in the middle of the day, but then it would get oily and what not. It was a vicious cycle and I knew that there had to be a better way! I had a lightbulb moment that the only reason that anybody uses shampoo is to clean their hair. So if I can clean my hair and not strip it, so that my clients color won’t go down the drain, because I had been mixing vegetable color in with shampoos, that’s how I knew that the culprit was shampoo. So I’m emptying bottles of shampoo and mixing in vegetable color and putting them back in and I’m doing the same with conditioner – emptying them and putting back in vegetable color. But I know the culprit is shampoo, so get rid of the damn shampoo! That was before I bought the salon, but when I owned the salon, I no longer had to do this song and dance anymore. I can do my thing and that’s what it was.
The irony is, I never bought my shampoo from them. I bought the products that I created for them, but I never bought shampoo from them again. I would mix the sage and rosemary together – 2 parts sage, 1 part rosemary. Sage is more moisturizing and rosemary is more stringent so mixing 2/3 and 1/3, it worked. At the beginning, I told them about it because I was excited and they didn’t want to hear about it. About a year or so later, they realized that I never bought shampoo and I said, “why because I only do conditioner.” They thought that I was weird and crazy and then all of a sudden, they realized that I was on to something and then they came in asking about what I did and I knew! I knew that they were going to steal my idea because I was just this tiny little kid! My stylist next to me started telling me and I told her not to tell them. I knew what they were up to and they were going to rip me off.
AM: That’s awful!
CD: I did it and that was my moment when I started creating. It was still 2 years after that. So for 2 years, I mixed there’s and then in 1995, is when I started to work with the lab. When the lab came to me, I was concerned about them ripping me off so I didn’t even tell them what I was creating! With the lab, I would just pretend that I was creating a shampoo otherwise they were going to know what I was doing. So with the lab, they would send me the shampoo, various conditioners of different versions. I would keep making changes to the conditioners and they would note that I hadn’t with the shampoos and I would tell them that that one was good and I didn’t need any other changes. I didn’t tell them. It wasn’t until I launched it because my thinking was being someone much smaller than the larger companies around me, I had to protect it as long as I could and I kept the secret until it was launched. Even when I launched it, I still felt like I would have to keep it a secret. But by then I had to talk about it because it was out there and I had a patent pending. So I felt like it was guarded until I launched it.
AM: I love that story and it’s such a shame.There is such a backstory going on and you’re literally learning on a twisty curve and it’s awful when you’re the little guy!
CD: I probably wouldn’t have been around if it hadn’t happened that way. I didn’t do it out of spite or resentment. But I did it out of, if I did that for you, imagine what I could do for myself! That’s my thing. With the knowledge that I had back then versus what I had when I did it for myself, I knew I could do so much better than that.
AM: We had the pleasure of attending your virtual launch for the Pina Colada collection that took place last month. The system is great – what’s your process when you’re deciding about the scents that you’re bringing forward, what are the different kinds of products, and it’s great that there is that flexibility and such an intention behind what you do in these items that they can work for your skin as well as for your hair.
CD: I have very few products that only have 1 use. I’d have to think about which ones those would be. Most of them spill over for hair, skin, everything. As far as the fragrances, I have a Blessings Collection as well. Right now, we’re working on Prosperity. When we did the Pina Colada, we started out with wanting pineapple and coconut, but then as we went the process it became more than that! It literally became Pina Colada. Having pineapple and coconut made sense because of the benefits of the clarifying and the astringent properties, exfoliating properties, and hydrating properties. I knew where I wanted to go with it. This is one that I am so proud of! It’s been out since the beginning of June.
AM: When we got the WEN mailer, we were a little hesitant because some scents can be overwhelming and it’s just too much!
CD: Oh yeah, sometimes it’s like candy and too sweet!
AM: Yeah!
CD: Mine are not like that.
AM: When you’re using it feels like you’re at a spa and I really enjoy the balance of the scent.
CD: That is my element and as someone who suffers from migraines, the fragrances that I create are very clean. I avoid those nasty harsh synthetics and the musk because it drives my migraines and they know that about me too. So yeah, when you think of it and again, I smell other ones and I can’t because it goes right there! I keep it really clean and that’s what differentiates me so much because I have done over 50 fragrances and I will tell people not to wear fragrances because it drives my migraines, but the fact that I can create these and it doesn’t do that to me is so amazing. Again, I’m not making a claim, but anyone that does get migraines, or you have a fear of them, try it at least. I don’t remember anyone who has told me that it triggers their migraines.
AM: That’s good to know. What is the relationship when people are looking at having great hair – the balance between wellness and your haircare routine? Because it’s not just about what you put on your body, but also what you put in your body right?
CD: Oh yes! It’s really important. I try to get people to understand that everything that goes and I never use this analogy, but it’s the gas that you put in your car is going to determine that as well! Everything that you put into your body is going to come out as well. If you put in cheap gas you’re going to see that and it’s going to take its toll. But, the same thing with us. What goes in is going to have to come out somewhere. Your pores, your hair, your nails, your skin – somewhere. It has to come out, it doesn’t stay in there in a vault. So, yeah, when people realize that, you can change so much by your diet. What you do topically, you’ll notice it much quicker and immediately versus what you put in may take you a little longer to see what’s going on.
I definitely connect the two as I’m vegan and it’s been almost 4 years. I was pescatarian from Sept of 2014-2019 for 5 years and then I gave that up because I felt like I was probably eating more plastic than probably fish. Also, because they are living beings and there was all of that. I’ve been vegan now for almost 4 years. September will mark the 4th year. In terms of eating meat or any of that stuff, I haven’t in 9 years as of September. All of that is important to me. When I launched my product line, I did so with no animal testing. There are no animal biproducts, it’s cruelty-free, we are recognized by the leaping bunny and I did that again working on the line in 95, launching it in 2000 – so it’s not a bandwagon that I jumped onto. I have always been that way. Now, everyone is doing it being vegan and cruelty-free and I’m like, “where were you 20 years ago?” I launched that way. I don’t want to be swept away under the rug because everyone is now, I have been that way ever since I created my products. It’s important to me as well.
I think this is important, when I had my infomercial, I stipulated that I wouldn’t allow them to sell in China because they require animal testing. They knew that that was part of the contract and that I would not allow them to do that. They wanted to obviously, but it’s not ok.
AM: You’re schedule must be insane with your 2 salons in LA and here in NY, your QVC business with the brand as well as the brand on it’s own. What is an average week like for you? I love that you’re just smiling right now.
CD: No, it’s just that before you and I talked, I was talking with my business manager who was telling me that I had to do this, this, and this. I’ve been shooting for the past 2 days and almost everything was that. I know there are things that I need to do because they are important. It’s not a joke, my LA PR team, we were supposed to have a call a few days ago and then the shoot happened and she was like, we still need to talk and I was like, "I know, but when?” It just is and it’s not a complaint. It doesn’t stop.
We did a documentary. A guy reached out to me during COVID and he wanted to do it about our billboards. During COVID, I hadn’t done photoshoots for it. So a year and a half into it, I reached out and apologized that I hadn’t done anything for it. When we finally did it last July, it was a long time that he was waiting for us to do shoots. He came out and did the footage and what not, filmed it, asked me questions and did the interview and all of that. Just yesterday during our shoot, we happened to talk about it and our billboards for next year for Fall, Winter, Spring and Summer and what that will look like and what we want to do. We try to shoot the whole year. So we’re going to do our shoot and do a behind the scenes with our video guy where we’ll talk about what we’re doing, who we are, what it means, etc. The billboards have been out for at least 15 years and I need to figure out when the first ones went up because I really don’t remember honestly. Having said that, we talked about it and they said we haven’t heard from him and it’s been almost a year ago now. So we’re talking about what we’re going to do with behind the scenes and interactions with everyone involved with my team. I have the first sample of it today and in there it reminded me because he asked me this as well – and I said that there is something in me that’s afraid that if I took a vacation or time off, if I took a pause or a stop to it, I might not pick it back up again because I know what it entails. I always say that I feel like I am on this merry-go-round and if I get off, I don’t know if I am getting back on. So I’m afraid to put a pin or a pause in it. You’d think that that was what happened during COVID, but I got busier with Zooms and this. For people that got those breaks and what not, I didn’t!
AM: We had no break!
CD: I thought that I would and I’d have time to clean out my closet, my garage, etc. None of that happened! I didn’t get free time which is insane. Things got busier because people knew that Chaz was available. When I was behind the chair before, they would have to stand there and wait for me because they couldn’t get to me. As soon as COVID happened, everyone could get to me and it happened. Now I’m on these Zoom things in the salon here on Saturdays because the rest is taken up with all of this. In NY, I’m in the salon 5 days a week which is what I was used to during normalcy because I’m able to there as I’m out of this if that makes sense.
There’s no 2 days that are the same. I’m juggling. Today I’m trying to fit together meetings in – where are we going to fit it? Ask this one if they can stay 15 mins later, we’ll meet with this one after – it is what it is. Even during COVID, when I look at my life pre-COVID, even today, I don’t know how I did it. We were traveling every month to QVC sometimes twice a month. A team of 20+ going there. I look at it now and wonder how did we do that during 2019? I don’t know how and I know we did it for 16 years at that time. But I look at it and wonder how I lived that life before COVID and I don't know how and I don't even know how to get back to that! I don’t think that we ever will. So when you asked me that question, I lived it. How did we do all that we did? I don’t know.
Ever since COVID, the team that used to go doesn’t want to do that anymore. Everything changed.
AM: Everything changed! That’s very true!
What do you want your legacy to be in this industry?
CD: It’s so funny that you ask that. If you say Vidal Sassoon, Oribe, or what not – you know who or what they are. I want it to be that this guy changed the way that globally people thought about the way they cleanse their hair. I don’t feel like I have hit that yet and I don’t know why or what it will take to hit that. There was no such thing as cleansing conditioner when I did it. People thought that I was insane and crazy and said, “what do you mean that I’m not going to be able to use shampoo?” I’d tell them to trust me and that I promised that it would work. You do a week, 2 weeks, then 3 weeks. I’m on day 2, but still I’m 30 years that I haven’t had lather touch my hair, face, body, or skin. I would not have all this hair on my head if I continued to use shampoo. I’d probably have half this amount and I’m not joking because of the toll it takes on your scalp and your hair. So I’d really like to leave behind the recognition – I really would, that he really had a movement that changed things. It’s the same version of the person who created shampoo, I’m the guy who invented cleaning conditioner. I don’t think that it’s hit because everyone has copied it and it’s not the same. There are people who say they use cleansing conditioners and I ask them if it’s Wen and they say, “no, but it’s all the same.” And I say no – I had that message 30+ years ago and there are people on the bandwagon, but it was delivered to me. I didn’t understand what it was when I opened a salon, I didn’t plan on it. I stepped into that role of giving up lather, I didn’t know what it would mean, but I knew I was on a journey. So I would like it if I was known as that guy who gave up lather and created cleansing conditioner. It has been worldwide.
We did an event last night and sometimes people don’t realize it’s they me until we have the gift bags and they’ll say, oh my God, Wen – that’s you! So they connect it that way – you get what I mean! They’re like, your Flipping Out Guy or QVC guy. There are times that people don’t realize and they will tell me that they love Wen and that they love Chaz and then they’ll realize it’s me! It’s bizarre, it happens, and it’s crazy.
I know how hard I have worked for it and I would like it to be when it’s all said and done that there is a legacy behind it. I was passionate about it and I did it for her, him, the customer. Anyone that knows me, if I go anywhere, like last night, it was an event for pre Comic-Con and I was giving advice. There was a woman who was there who had all hair pieces and what not and her testimonial was amazing. She had been using it for 15 years or more and whatever industry her hair extensions come from, they all use it because it prolongs them. When you use shampoo on them, you’re buying another one, and another one, and another one – they’re getting trashed. So to hear her testimonial was amaz ing. How did I change her life, help her life, build her confidence? There are people who have been born and have never used lather in their lives since this has been out for 22 years. I have a goddaughter who is 23 and lather has never touched her hair – things like that, they have never had to experience shampoo because Wen was there. I’d like to have the weight of what it actually means and not just the story of the cleansing conditioner but how it touched people’s lives, built their confidence and all of those elements are why I do what I do. It’s a confidence booster!
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PHOTOGRAPHY COURTESY | Chaz Dean
Read the JUL ISSUE #91 of Athleisure Mag and see MAKING HAIRSTORY | Chaz Dean in mag.
